Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?! ? Civil Aviation Forum ...
Bula!
Was at the FJ A330-200 event last night at LAX. Great new product, Biz class you want row 1, and Economy seats/VOD is super! FIJI Airways has a wonderful new product!
After the open house, the boys and I hit the IN-N-OUT next to 24R. Two words "Animal Fries". This aviation honk, like us, started chatting about planes after he heard our conversation. He told us he was a mechanic for HA at HNL and was plane spotting on the west coast.
Then from nowhere came, "did you hear about Hawaiians lease for 777?" Huh, what... no. "YA, six are going to be leased, with the 1st arriving by the end of the year for the new international expansion" he said. "I thought Zander release that information already, because we had Boeing guys at the shop right before I left".
We did find hard to believe, but HA is making "BANK" on the northwest Pacific, one never knows.
Vanuinui vinaka ki na siga ni kua
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
I find this very hard to believe as HA already has the A350 on order. If it was actually true, I'm sure this news would have been known/published by now.
A388
Not going to get my hopes up, but this could actually make a lot of sense for them. It's very believable. They could feel that 2017 is too long for the capabilities the A358 will offer them. They have 6 A358s on order. They could simply lease these 777s for 3-4 years, or incorporate into their long term fleet strategy, possibly accelerating 767 retirements or converting them to A332 orders. Or just taking them all.
I think there are three options here:
1 - it's not happening.
2 - ha ha ha, pull the other one.
3 - oink oink flap, is that a flying pig I just saw?
This makes absolutely no sense. Maybe one for a specific route, like LA going for 5 A340s for very particular routes they needed to fly nonstop, but 6 777s on an airline with the network size of HA and A350s on order? Not gonna happen. That mechanic was having some fun.
Uh, this makes far too much sense to simply dismiss like an outlandish practical joke...
Not saying its going to happen or I often believe these employee stories, but there are ample reasons to do it. Aircraft with 50+ more seats for profitable Asian routes and longer range instead of waiting 4-5 years for it.
Quoting A388 (Reply 1): I find this very hard to believe as HA already has the A350 on order. If it was actually true, I'm sure this news would have been known/published by now.
If HA is leasing, then it could be interim lift until the A350s arrive.
Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 2): They have 6 A358s on order. They could simply lease these 777s for 3-4 years, or incorporate into their long term fleet strategy, possibly accelerating 767 retirements or converting them to A332 orders. Or just taking them all.
I highly doubt Boeing would be interested in a 3-4 year lease of new frames. What other than the 772ER would HA be interested in? The 77W is a beast and a massive upguage in capacity, and I cannot see them needing the 77L.
There is no way Boeing is going to short-term lease new 772's because they're not really in demand now, let alone 5 years from now. That's 6 fairly new birds that have to be placed again in 5 years, when most carriers are going to be dumping theirs. I could see this being placement of used frames, but then again why wouldn't they just go back to Airbus and get their hands on more A332's?
I cannot see them wanting to replace a 763 with a 772, that's a lot more weight you're carrying around. Then again, I don't run HA, so what do I know.
I think he was joking.
Zander was the CEO of AQ just before Banmiller who liquidated it. Dunkerley is the current HA CEO.
Quoting mcoatc (Reply 8): I highly doubt Boeing would be interested in a 3-4 year lease of new frames.
Boeing does not typically lease airplanes directly to customers.
As to commercial lessors who do, ALC has 10 777-300ERs on recent order, of which one is going to KL. So that leaves a possible nine available for other customers (assuming HA is interested in a 777-300ER).
Quoting Stitch (Reply 7): Quoting A388 (Reply 1):
I find this very hard to believe as HA already has the A350 on order. If it was actually true, I'm sure this news would have been known/published by now.
If HA is leasing, then it could be interim lift until the A350s arrive.
I was thinking of that too but leasing brandnew 777's is expensive, especially when it's only for 3-4 years. Does HA want to lease such a big airplane just for 3-4 years? Keeping them permanent also means going away from their road to standardizing around Airbus so when looking at this, it also makes no sense to add another aircraft type to the fleet, especially a small fleet of 6 that is claimed here.
A388
Didn't HA and Boeing get in some pissing match and that's why HA bought the A330's to begin with?
The only reason Hawaiian would get 777 is to fly to Europe from HNL. They need them for the distance not the higher capacity from an A330-200. Hawaiian fits lots of seats into their A330-200, their First Class is 45 inch pitch like domestic First nothing like international J class.
Quoting mcoatc (Reply 8): There is no way Boeing is going to short-term lease new 772's because they're not really in demand now, let alone 5 years from now. That
Quoting A388 (Reply 11): I was thinking of that too but leasing brandnew 777's is expensive
While I don't necessarily believe the rumor, leasing 777s doesn't necessarily mean they are brand new.
Quoting Polot (Reply 15):
While I don't necessarily believe the rumor, leasing 777s doesn't necessarily mean they are brand new.
Won't EK have some 773 coming onto the market soon?
I have a really hard time believing this for the following reasons:
1. HA plan is to have a ALL Airbus long-haul fleet.
2. You would need to train a few crews to be certified for a sub-fleet that would only last 3-4 years, and that would be very expensive to do.
3. You would need to train a few mechanics to work on a sub-fleet that is only in service for 3-4 years, again this would very expensive to do.
4. With all the money HA would invest in a) leasing the 6 T7's b) training the crews c) training the mechanics would they even make a profit?
P.S.: You might want to take my statements with a grain of salt considering I'm a die hard Airbus fan? ?
Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 2): Not going to get my hopes up, but this could actually make a lot of sense for them. It's very believable. They could feel that 2017 is too long for the capabilities the A358 will offer them.
So they won't convert to A359 because the A359 is too big, but they'll take 777's instead? ?
Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 6): Not saying its going to happen or I often believe these employee stories, but there are ample reasons to do it. Aircraft with 50+ more seats for profitable Asian routes and longer range instead of waiting 4-5 years for it.
They won't have to wait 4-5 years if they convert to A359. See above ?
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14): The only reason Hawaiian would get 777 is to fly to Europe from HNL.
Wouldn't the A359 do that better?
For such a small fleet it would make a lot more sense to lease A333's or even A346's if they were looking for interim capacity.
This rumour is just that a rumour that is unfounded no matter the source. A mechanic? A pilot. A F/A. Any rumours coming from these guys are useless.
Quoting N821NW (Reply 17): You would need to train a few crews to be certified for a sub-fleet that would only last 3-4 years, and that would be very expensive to do.
They have to train the 767-300 pilots on the A330-200 and I expect also training some of them on the 777 would not be a great hardship.
Lets dream a little....a 773 in HA colors at LAX would be beautiful
Quoting airbazar (Reply 18): They won't have to wait 4-5 years if they convert to A359. See above
If A350 production slots are full until 2017(note I do not know if that is true or not) converting their order to the A359 won't get them in their hands any faster. Even if slots are available an order conversion to something with an earlier EIS doesn't necessarily move them up in the production.
[Edited 2013-05-22 15:40:50]
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 13): The only reason Hawaiian would get 777 is to fly to Europe from HNL. They need them for the distance not the higher capacity from an A330-200. Hawaiian fits lots of seats into their A330-200, their First Class is 45 inch pitch like domestic First nothing like international J class.
You seriously do not believe that Europeans want to fly 16-17 hours to go to the beach do you?
During the off season its hard enough to convince people on the East Coast of the US to make the 10 hour journey to Hawaii when they could be in the Caribbean in 3-4 hours. If Europeans want a fun in the sun beach vacation I'm sure there are a lot of destinations that are a whole lot closer than a 16-17 hour nonstop flight to Hawaii.
And just out of curiosity how much would a round trip ticket in coach go for at today's current fuel prices on a flight like that? It most certainly would not be cheap because Hawaiian would need to charge enough to cover their own cost and then hope to make a profit on a plane that would have very few premium seats. There has been a lot of talk in previous threads on A.netters about one or two airlines wanting operating a Hawaii to Europe nonstop but how would they do a flight of this length profitably in a market that is dominated by cost conscious leisure travelers? And even if the airlines could do a flight like this profitably how would they convince passengers that Hawaii is worth the 16-17 hour flight. If you can't convince people of that it doesn't matter what type aircraft you use, you still are going to loosing money because your flying a plane filled with empty seats.
why not try and lease some more A330s instead?
who said HA would be looking at NEW planes... they could be getting USED planes... who knows.
25 RayChuang: I really doubt HA will get the 777--the plane is too big for the airline. I think in the longer term, HA will phase out their entire 767 fleet in favo
28 slcdeltarumd11: I would think at best it could be a bridge and short term. Why on earth would they want both 777s and A350s? I guess we will find out soon enough if i
29 jpetekyxmd80: Sure they do. SYD and HND would be perfect for a 777.
30 zotan: Not happening. There has been absolutely zero talk in the industry about this. People would have heard by now.
31 JAAlbert: I am the first to admit that I'm no aviation expert, but the 77W seems much too large for Hawaiian's operations. What routes could they use the 77W o
32 Schweigend: . . . I agree with all three of you. It is entirely plausible that HA might lease used 772ERs to fly Austral-Asian routes until the A350s arrive. But
33 columba: I too have a hard time believing this. The only thing which might be a possibilty that it is a short time lease till their A350s arrive.
34 koruman: Millions already do. Check the statistics. Huge numbers of Europeans travel each year for tropical vacations in Bali, Malaysia, Thailand, the Maldive
36 saloman: You did a poor job of expressing your point if that wasn't its intent. Nor did you anywhere address the fact that the previous thread on the topic in
38 HNL-Jack: As do many of the posts here, I suspect this is another employee rumor which it seems like many of us associated with the airline industry relish in s
39 oldeuropean: Hahaha, yeah sure, and I remember the rumours spread by an other "HA mechanic", that HA wanted to get rid of the A330s ASAP. We had a tread about thi
42 chrisair: You really believe someone that randomly approaches you in a park? If so, I'll be in Los Angeles soon. Hopefully you'll be there because I have a ver
44 JerseyFlyer: AI are leasing out some 77Ls. Will they have 6 left after that? These could be excellent interim lift before the 358s arrive for direct flights to Eur
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